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The Captivating Beth Kephart
“You think of the courage it takes to be anyone at all and anyone, especially, on the page. You think of right, you think of wrong, you think of a writer writing…” Wife | Daughter | Self
Beth Kephart has penned over thirty books, received numerous awards, and been a National Book Award finalist; yet, somehow, I only “discovered” her recently. Her latest memoir, Wife | Daughter | Self, touched me in so many ways, and on so many levels, I had to reach out to her. I am so grateful she reached back.
Wife | Daughter | Self
One of many interesting things about this memoir is how you wrote some essays in first person, and some in third. Could you talk about why you chose this approach?
I also managed to sneak in a little second-personing, strange person that I am. WIFE | DAUGHTER | SELF is a memoir in essays—a book built of reverbs and recursions, echoes and signifiers. Each piece was written with the hope of getting as close to the truth as possible, and sometimes the truth of us requires us to see ourselves as others might. Alternatively, the truth is so painful that the closest we can come to writing it is by giving ourselves another pronoun. And so I sought truth. I sought to see myself clearly.
“I’m increasingly inclined toward honesty.” What, if any, impact has this insight had on your writing in general, and this memoir in particular?
My work is more fierce than it once was. Less afraid to explore complications. More willing to wade into complexities. Painfully aware that there are no easy answers or finally true patina surfaces. I never bent to commercial expectations, but I’m doing even less bending now.
“We get to know each other.”
“We never know each other.”
These two quotes, back to back, fascinate me. Does this apply to knowing, or not knowing, ourselves as well as each other? Have you gotten to know yourself better by writing in general, and/or memoirs specifically?
We are always coming toward an understanding of ourselves and of the others in our lives. But we never quite get there, do we? Something shifts, something surfaces, some new experience shapes us, or the other, and there we are again with our questions. I have never felt as if I’ve known myself perfectly, but I know myself best with writing, in any genre. Writing is the conversation we have with our own selves, as we write toward our conversation with others.
You quote George Hodgman: “The worst books are the ones that feel safe.” Why do you think so, and would you consider your books safe?
Safe is boring, because safe can be foreseen. Safe can be predicted. I don’t consider my books safe. I think my books find those readers who are willing to take risks.
One of the things that struck, and impressed, me most in your latest memoir is its courage and candor. Yet, in “Second Coming” you write “Lie, and it’s fiction. Lie, and it’s a poem.” Would you add, “Lie, and it’s a memoir.” Or is that the exception to the rule?
We never knowingly lie when we write memoir, or we shouldn’t. But boy is it hard to nail the truth. Memoir is the sustained art of trying not to lie.
You also write, “A memoir is never right. Nor is the memoirist.” So… what drives you to write them? Is it because, as you also wrote, “…the truth is in the trying?” Do you write, ultimately, for yourself or to share your experiences with others? You have written several memoirs; are you closer to getting it right with each one? What, ideally, do you hope to achieve in writing memoirs?
I write, as we all must write, to find out. I write to bridge myself to myself and to others. I write toward the universal I and eye, and every memoir I have written has been the right memoir in that moment. And then we live on, we live forward. We keep writing.
WILD BLUES
There is so much of your own life and loved ones in this beautiful middle grade novel: your great-grandfather’s book; the uncle based on your own; the young Salvadoran artist; your husband’s lovely watercolors… even the heroine’s name, Lizzie, is a variation of your own. You wrote that you “had an instinct… about putting my mother’s brother, my father’s grandfather, and my husband’s childhood world all together in one story.” Can you tell us what this writing journey was like, and if it was different from your other books? Did you find it harder or easier because it was so close to you? And did you find it more rewarding in the end?
Although I have written many novels for younger readers (books that mostly get read by parents and adults, it seems), I have always felt, with each novel, that I have been circling a truth of me. My protagonists all contain elements of who I once was. My secondary characters are based on those I love, including some of my students at Penn. I’m talking about the soul of these people, the soul of me. Every novel has incorporated the struggle and the great pleasure of honoring the real in and around me. WILD BLUES was spectacularly populated with the stories of my life, the people I loved. I had to get it right.
Some of my favorite lines include:
“…You can choose to matter.”
“Nobody is the judgment they’ve been given… Nobody is anything except who they are.”
Lizzie has such an inspiring and empowering voice, especially for middle grade readers. Did you base her on anyone you know? Have you received a lot of fan mail from your audience?
I’m so glad you love Lizzie. Lizzie was one of my childhood monikers (even though my full name is Beth, not Elizabeth). There is a lot of her in me. And fan mail — those cool conversations used to happen mostly in person pre COVID. I do love hearing from readers, though.
You framed your story in such an unusual manner: Lizzie is talking to someone the entire time… but we don’t learn who her audience is until far into the book. Had you always planned to tell the story this way, and why?
Yes. I had always planned the story precisely as you so ably describe it here. It all begins with voice with me. I heard Lizzie talking and she was talking to someone. I had to write the book to find out who. And then of course rewrite it a thousand and one times to get it right, or better.
Here’s another line I love: “Tell your story until the story heals.” Is this what you aspire to do in both your fiction and memoirs? Does writing heal you in any way?
Writing quiets my brain, even as it challenges and frustrates me. It is a great, distracting puzzle to solve, and sometimes, in this world, distractions and intensities and urgencies distract us long enough to give us the energy we need to go back out and face the world.
General Writing Questions
From a reader’s perspective, you switch effortlessly from memoir to middle grade novel to picture book. How is this possible? Do you lean towards one kind of writing, or are you equally comfortable with, and fond of, all?
It always just comes down to voice, metaphor, image, idea, pressing hopes and dreams. I move among the genres but my heart is always here, in the same place. I loved writing novels, but I don’t know that I know how to do that anymore. But I will always be glad that I took those journeys with my characters.
Besides writing amazing books, you run fantastic workshops. Could you please talk about Juncture?
I write about Juncture, of course, in the memoir you have so kindly asked me about here. My husband and I think of it as a Shelter for the Truth—a place to go to delve deep into the genre, into one’s memories, into one’s world. We ran a series of five-day intensive workshops on a farm, by the sea, by a river, in a suburban town. During COVID, we built an online platform offering some really interesting, I think, sessions full of excerpts, prompts, ideas. We’re just starting the second series now. In addition, Juncture is a publishing arm, publishing memoir workbooks and a journal and other sorts of things. Finally, Juncture offers a free newsletter, updating readers on new books and offering prompts. I’m lucky that my husband is a designer and so capable of creating such a beautiful stage for writers’ work. More on Juncture can be found here: junctureworkshops.com
Do you have any advice for writers, new or experienced?
Everyone says the same thing, but it is really and so deeply true. There is no writing without reading. We must teach ourselves what we believe is good and not good, excellent and not worthy, and write to transcend our own expectations.
Last but not least, please tell us about your upcoming projects!
I do have a series of beautiful (I can say that because the illustrators are all so amazing) picture books due out—nonfiction picture books. AND I PAINT IT, with Amy June Bates, tells the story of a single day in the life of the painter Henriette Wyeth, beside her famous father. Next spring, my book on William Morris will come out, illustrated by the incredible Melodie Stacie. Both books from Cameron/Abrams. After that, I have a book on the children’s book editor Ursula Nordstrom, to be illustrated by Chloe Bristol. All in all, I am lucky.
At the moment, I am not at work on any book. The ideas rise and fall, hide and appear. I wait.
The Captivating Beth Kephart
“You think of the courage it takes to be anyone at all and anyone, especially, on the page. You think of right, you think of wrong, you think of a writer writing…” Wife | Daughter | Self
Beth Kephart has penned over thirty books, received numerous awards, and been a National Book Award finalist; yet, somehow, I only “discovered” her recently. Her latest memoir, Wife | Daughter | Self, touched me in so many ways, and on so many levels, I had to reach out to her. I am so grateful she reached back.
Wife | Daughter | Self
One of many interesting things about this memoir is how you wrote some essays in first person, and some in third. Could you talk about why you chose this approach?
I also managed to sneak in a little second-personing, strange person that I am. WIFE | DAUGHTER | SELF is a memoir in essays—a book built of reverbs and recursions, echoes and signifiers. Each piece was written with the hope of getting as close to the truth as possible, and sometimes the truth of us requires us to see ourselves as others might. Alternatively, the truth is so painful that the closest we can come to writing it is by giving ourselves another pronoun. And so I sought truth. I sought to see myself clearly.
“I’m increasingly inclined toward honesty.” What, if any, impact has this insight had on your writing in general, and this memoir in particular?
My work is more fierce than it once was. Less afraid to explore complications. More willing to wade into complexities. Painfully aware that there are no easy answers or finally true patina surfaces. I never bent to commercial expectations, but I’m doing even less bending now.
“We get to know each other.”
“We never know each other.”
These two quotes, back to back, fascinate me. Does this apply to knowing, or not knowing, ourselves as well as each other? Have you gotten to know yourself better by writing in general, and/or memoirs specifically?
We are always coming toward an understanding of ourselves and of the others in our lives. But we never quite get there, do we? Something shifts, something surfaces, some new experience shapes us, or the other, and there we are again with our questions. I have never felt as if I’ve known myself perfectly, but I know myself best with writing, in any genre. Writing is the conversation we have with our own selves, as we write toward our conversation with others.
You quote George Hodgman: “The worst books are the ones that feel safe.” Why do you think so, and would you consider your books safe?
Safe is boring, because safe can be foreseen. Safe can be predicted. I don’t consider my books safe. I think my books find those readers who are willing to take risks.
One of the things that struck, and impressed, me most in your latest memoir is its courage and candor. Yet, in “Second Coming” you write “Lie, and it’s fiction. Lie, and it’s a poem.” Would you add, “Lie, and it’s a memoir.” Or is that the exception to the rule?
We never knowingly lie when we write memoir, or we shouldn’t. But boy is it hard to nail the truth. Memoir is the sustained art of trying not to lie.
You also write, “A memoir is never right. Nor is the memoirist.” So… what drives you to write them? Is it because, as you also wrote, “…the truth is in the trying?” Do you write, ultimately, for yourself or to share your experiences with others? You have written several memoirs; are you closer to getting it right with each one? What, ideally, do you hope to achieve in writing memoirs?
I write, as we all must write, to find out. I write to bridge myself to myself and to others. I write toward the universal I and eye, and every memoir I have written has been the right memoir in that moment. And then we live on, we live forward. We keep writing.
WILD BLUES
There is so much of your own life and loved ones in this beautiful middle grade novel: your great-grandfather’s book; the uncle based on your own; the young Salvadoran artist; your husband’s lovely watercolors… even the heroine’s name, Lizzie, is a variation of your own. You wrote that you “had an instinct… about putting my mother’s brother, my father’s grandfather, and my husband’s childhood world all together in one story.” Can you tell us what this writing journey was like, and if it was different from your other books? Did you find it harder or easier because it was so close to you? And did you find it more rewarding in the end?
Although I have written many novels for younger readers (books that mostly get read by parents and adults, it seems), I have always felt, with each novel, that I have been circling a truth of me. My protagonists all contain elements of who I once was. My secondary characters are based on those I love, including some of my students at Penn. I’m talking about the soul of these people, the soul of me. Every novel has incorporated the struggle and the great pleasure of honoring the real in and around me. WILD BLUES was spectacularly populated with the stories of my life, the people I loved. I had to get it right.
Some of my favorite lines include:
“…You can choose to matter.”
“Nobody is the judgment they’ve been given… Nobody is anything except who they are.”
Lizzie has such an inspiring and empowering voice, especially for middle grade readers. Did you base her on anyone you know? Have you received a lot of fan mail from your audience?
I’m so glad you love Lizzie. Lizzie was one of my childhood monikers (even though my full name is Beth, not Elizabeth). There is a lot of her in me. And fan mail — those cool conversations used to happen mostly in person pre COVID. I do love hearing from readers, though.
You framed your story in such an unusual manner: Lizzie is talking to someone the entire time… but we don’t learn who her audience is until far into the book. Had you always planned to tell the story this way, and why?
Yes. I had always planned the story precisely as you so ably describe it here. It all begins with voice with me. I heard Lizzie talking and she was talking to someone. I had to write the book to find out who. And then of course rewrite it a thousand and one times to get it right, or better.
Here’s another line I love: “Tell your story until the story heals.” Is this what you aspire to do in both your fiction and memoirs? Does writing heal you in any way?
Writing quiets my brain, even as it challenges and frustrates me. It is a great, distracting puzzle to solve, and sometimes, in this world, distractions and intensities and urgencies distract us long enough to give us the energy we need to go back out and face the world.
General Writing Questions
From a reader’s perspective, you switch effortlessly from memoir to middle grade novel to picture book. How is this possible? Do you lean towards one kind of writing, or are you equally comfortable with, and fond of, all?
It always just comes down to voice, metaphor, image, idea, pressing hopes and dreams. I move among the genres but my heart is always here, in the same place. I loved writing novels, but I don’t know that I know how to do that anymore. But I will always be glad that I took those journeys with my characters.
Besides writing amazing books, you run fantastic workshops. Could you please talk about Juncture?
I write about Juncture, of course, in the memoir you have so kindly asked me about here. My husband and I think of it as a Shelter for the Truth—a place to go to delve deep into the genre, into one’s memories, into one’s world. We ran a series of five-day intensive workshops on a farm, by the sea, by a river, in a suburban town. During COVID, we built an online platform offering some really interesting, I think, sessions full of excerpts, prompts, ideas. We’re just starting the second series now. In addition, Juncture is a publishing arm, publishing memoir workbooks and a journal and other sorts of things. Finally, Juncture offers a free newsletter, updating readers on new books and offering prompts. I’m lucky that my husband is a designer and so capable of creating such a beautiful stage for writers’ work. More on Juncture can be found here: junctureworkshops.com
Do you have any advice for writers, new or experienced?
Everyone says the same thing, but it is really and so deeply true. There is no writing without reading. We must teach ourselves what we believe is good and not good, excellent and not worthy, and write to transcend our own expectations.
Last but not least, please tell us about your upcoming projects!
I do have a series of beautiful (I can say that because the illustrators are all so amazing) picture books due out—nonfiction picture books. AND I PAINT IT, with Amy June Bates, tells the story of a single day in the life of the painter Henriette Wyeth, beside her famous father. Next spring, my book on William Morris will come out, illustrated by the incredible Melodie Stacie. Both books from Cameron/Abrams. After that, I have a book on the children’s book editor Ursula Nordstrom, to be illustrated by Chloe Bristol. All in all, I am lucky.
At the moment, I am not at work on any book. The ideas rise and fall, hide and appear. I wait.
Libby & The Lido
Every spring and summer for the past 10 years, I’ve been privileged to be part of the Women’s National Book Association’s Great Group Reads Committee. For the past few years, I’ve reached out to authors of some of my favorite reads – most often debut novelists – and interviewed them here. I am delighted to say that this month’s interviewee, Libby Page, has made our 2018 list of recommended books with her gorgeous debut novel, THE LIDO. (It’s a testament to how much I love this book that I don’t resent Libby for getting published in her mid-20s.)
Here is a smattering of the numerous glowing reviews THE LIDO has earned:
“Charming… an unusually poignant tale of married love.”—The Washington Post
“In many ways, this meditation on community and swimming follows in the footsteps of the enormously popular A Man Called Ove… Both are charming and heartwarming.”—Kirkus Reviews
“Populated with endearing, multidimensional characters covering a wide span of ages and backgrounds, Page’s debut novel makes it easy for readers to imagine themselves in the mix…Page’s underdog tale can also inspire timely discussions about how to build diverse, place-based communities. A smart suggestion for book clubs and readers who enjoy substance with style.”—Booklist
“A delicious debut about the endearing friendship between two women who join forces to save the town pool. Refreshing, funny and heartwarming, The Lido is must read.”—Laura Dave, national bestselling author of Eight Hundred Grapes and Hello, Sunshine
“A joyous and uplifting debut—a testament to kindness and friendship.”—Sarah Winman, author of When God Was a Rabbit and Tin Man
“This debut is set to be one of the biggest of the year.”—Grazia (UK)
“Brimming with charm and compassion.”—Daily Express (UK)
“A lavish depiction of an unlikely friendship, a London community and life-long love, all charmingly told in rich, yet gentle prose.”—Catherine Isaac, UK bestselling author of You, Me, Everything
“Feelgood and uplifting, this charming novel is full of heart.”—Lucy Diamond, UK bestselling author of The Beach Café
“Did I #lovethelido? So much my heart broke a little turning the last page. A stunning debut.”—Clare Mackintosh, UK bestselling author of I See You
Libby, thank you so much for taking time to do this. You’re my first international interview (Libby lives in England.)! Before we get to your book, let’s talk about you and your unusual background. How did you start in fashion and end up writing novels?
I have always wanted to be an author – I can’t remember a time in my life when I didn’t want to write novels. If you asked me at age six, seven, eleven, what I wanted to be when I was older, the answer was always the same. But as I got older I realized that you don’t just ‘become’ an author – it’s a little more challenging than that! I decided to study journalism at university, thinking that this might be a career where I could still write in my day job, while writing for myself on the side. I have always loved fashion and the history of fashion so decided to specialize in fashion journalism, although the course was quite broad and covered all the basics of journalism too. I did lots of internships at fashion magazines while I was studying, but ultimately found that it wasn’t actually for me. When I left university my first job was at the Guardian, writing for their students and education section. But I found that writing for my job meant that I had less time and headspace when I got home to write creatively – which had always been my main passion. So, after a year I decided to leave my job at the Guardian and move over to work in marketing instead. This turned out to work well for me – I found that doing something very different for my 9-5 meant that I had more creativity and energy left to write for myself. That’s when I started writing The Lido.
At the ripe old age of 26 (and, I assume, 25 when your book was sold?), your journey to publication couldn’t have taken very long! How did it come about?
I was 24 when I sold my book! I feel incredibly lucky for everything that has happened to me – I certainly wasn’t expecting it to happen this way! I had the idea for my book back in 2014 and spent about six months planning it before starting to write. For me planning was less about plotting out exactly what was going to happen, and more about fully forming my characters so that when I came to write they took the story in their own direction in some ways. I started writing in earnest in 2015, fitting it in around my full-time job. I would write in the mornings before work, on my lunch breaks, in the evenings and at weekends. It was quite full-on! I decided to take a bit of time out to focus entirely on the book, so saved up some money and quit my job in the brand team at a retailer, moving to Paris for six weeks to write intensely there. (It had always been a dream of mine to spend some time writing in Paris so I thought I would go for it!) I wrote about half of my book during that time in Paris – being able to focus on it and nothing else really helped. I then moved back to London for another job in marketing, this time at a charity. But by then I already had a decent chunk completed, so I felt much more motivated to keep going and finish it. The next step was sending the finished manuscript out to literary agents, and this was the longest part of getting published for me. It took me a year to find an agent and I received lots of rejections along the way. I was close to giving up when I heard about a new agency being founded and that they were looking for new writers. I contact Robert Caskie at this agency (Caskie Mushens) and he replied very quickly and enthusiastically. Things happened quite quickly after that – we did some edits together and he then sent it out to publishers at the start of 2017, which is when I signed the deals. Then it was a year of editing and working towards publication with the publishers. In many ways it has been a whirlwind, but there have also been lots of steps leading to this point.
Wow! That’s amazing. (Why didn’t I think of going to Paris to do some writing? Even a grocery list or two…) Speaking of travels, what has been the most surprising part of your journey so far?
The whole process of publishing a book has been entirely new for me, so every single 
thing has been a learning experience! Learning all the steps that happen along the way and all the different people involved has been fascinating. For me the really surprising thing has been how friendly the publishing industry is – lots of people in publishing houses seem to know each other, having moved around in different jobs in the industry. For such a huge industry, it still feels very personal, which I love. In the lead up to the launch in the UK I visited independent bookshops to ‘hand sell’ copies to book buyers. I had no idea that this was something authors did but I loved doing it – it was amazing to meet in person the people who would be selling my book. I have been so impressed and inspired by the booksellers I have met along this journey – there is such creativity and passion in this industry.
Are you working on a second book? Have we seen the last of Kate? (I hope not!)
I am writing a second book, yes! It is a standalone novel though, so not a sequel to The Lido. Although who knows – I’d never say no to revisiting the characters if inspiration struck in the future.
My fingers are crossed! In the meantime, any advice for aspiring authors?
My main advice would be to persevere. I was very close to giving up when I found my now-agent. The journey to publication can be quite demoralizing but I’m so glad I didn’t give up. I’m also pleased I didn’t give up with the actual writing of the book. It can be quite an isolating experience and you do sometimes question why you’re doing it – I think it’s a common trait among writers to be plagued by self-doubt. But you have to push through this and remember why you’re doing it – and I’d say that for most writers it’s simply because they love writing. And loving something is a pretty good reason to persevere with it, in my opinion.
Beautifully put, and absolutely true. And now, on to The Lido itself!
What did you come up with first, the story or the characters?
The start of the idea came from wanting to write a story about the importance of community. I lived in Brixton as a student and found that there was a really strong sense of community there, but that it was under threat with lots of big chains moving into the area and new blocks of flats being built. When I stepped back I realized this was something happening across London, and in towns and cities everywhere really, with community spaces being threatened by new developments. It made me really worry about what kind of places we will be left with if we lose all these special community hubs. I am a keen swimmer, so the lido seemed a good place to explore this theme of community. The characters came next, starting with Rosemary and Kate and growing from there.
Interesting. That makes perfect sense. What was the most challenging aspect of writing this book?
Just sticking at it was definitely hard at times. I wrote it with no real expectation of getting published, just because it was a story I wanted to write. But it meant that there were certainly moments when I doubted what I was doing and why I was giving up so much time for it. I’m definitely glad I persevered though!
I am, too – and no doubt many other readers will be glad as well.
You capture the voice and, more importantly, the heart, of an 80something woman in Rosemary so authentically. Where did you draw your inspiration from?
Thank you! Rosemary’s character isn’t based on any specific person but was definitely inspired by older women that I have encountered when swimming. You often see women of Rosemary’s age in the changing room, and they can be very hardy and dedicated outdoor swimmers. I loved the idea of a character who is that age but is not a ‘little old lady’ – someone who is still very active in her community and who feels young at heart. Because I imagine that being that age doesn’t necessarily feel so different on the inside to being twenty-six. Your body might change, but you’re still you – why wouldn’t you be? So in some ways it wasn’t too hard to get into the mindset of an 80something, because I honestly believe we all have much more in common than we think, regardless of age. The emotions we all experience are universal. Kate and Rosemary both experience loneliness, for example, for very different reasons, but the feeling is the same. Those 
common emotions are what unite us, I think.
I love that. You are absolutely right, Libby!
Whom did you relate to most as you wrote, and why? Did that change at any point?
I related to both Kate and Rosemary very strongly throughout the book. There are obvious parallels between Kate and myself – she is a similar age and like her I too have experienced what it’s like to move to a big city and feel somewhat overwhelmed. But I have now lived in London for over seven years and absolutely love living here. When writing Kate’s character there were moments when I wanted to say to her, ‘It will get better! This place has so much to offer!’. Right now I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else, but in The Lido, Kate still has a journey to go on in order to find her place in the city.
Rosemary is obviously a very different kind of person to me, but I related to her a huge amount too. Although I fortunately have not experienced the bereavement that she is dealing with at the start of the book, I can imagine how that might feel and I put those feelings into the writing. And although she is 86, she was a young woman once too and I very much wanted to get a sense of her younger self across in the book. I think often we can look at older people and forget that they were children, teenagers, young women once.
Is it strange to admit you love a character you created? Because I do love Rosemary! I’d love to be like her when I’m older – I admire how involved she is in her local community and that’s definitely something I’m trying to put into practice in my own life. You could say that writing about her has inspired me in that way.
I think both Rosemary, and this story, will inspire many people.
Did your story – or characters – take any surprising turns?
Both Kate and Rosemary were so clear in my mind that when writing they often did or said things that I wasn’t necessarily expecting. They grew the more that I wrote and that often took the story in new directions. That said, I did have a clear idea of the general plot when I started writing.
“Stories were Kate’s friends when she found people challenging.” Is this fiction or autobiography? 😉
I think all writers are readers first and foremost, and I am certainly no exception. I have always loved reading – it’s what inspired me to want to become an author. I love that books can be a real refuge for readers – the right book at the right time can be very powerful. But I have always loved people too, so in that way I was a much more sociable child than Kate. That love of people and their stories is probably the second thing that made me want to be an author, after the love of words themselves.
Had you always planned to include such a wonderful medley of supporting characters, like a pregnant woman, an adolescent boy, and even (spoiler alert!) a fox? And how on earth did you come up with a fox, anyway?
The thing I love about lidos is that they really can be hubs for the local community. People from all backgrounds come here to swim, and so I wanted to reflect this in the book. For me the supporting characters were there to show the role places like this can play in our communities – these special places where people come together. You might not know anything about the people you swim alongside or walk past in your local library or bookshop, but they are there and they all have their own story and reason for visiting. And you share something with them just by being in the same place.
The idea for the fox came about because I wanted to show a glimpse of the Brixton area from a different perspective to help build up a picture of the place for readers who have never been there. In London foxes are everywhere – you get very used to seeing them wandering down your street in the day as well as at night. They do cause a bit of a mess sometimes but I think most people feel quite affectionately about them – I personally think of London’s foxes as my neighbors. They share this city with us and live alongside us – I wanted to imagine what life must look like through their eyes. It’s just a couple of fleeting scenes but I hope might encourage readers to try and look at their own neighborhood from a new perspective. When we live somewhere we can sometimes stop seeing new details about the place – often it takes putting ourselves in someone else’s shoes (or in this case, paws!) to do that.
That’s a great idea!
“A small life was more than big enough for her if it had George in it.” Rosemary and her beloved George were married for 64 years – just like my parents! Are they modeled on a real-life couple you know?
Although Rosemary and George aren’t based on one specific couple, I have been lucky to have witnessed many great love stories throughout my life, from grandparents, to family friends, to my mum and stepdad. But the thing I find about these great true-life love stories is that they are not usually the dramatic affairs you often read about in books or see in films. True love, I think, can often be very ordinary. But that’s what makes it so wonderful. Rosemary and George are in some ways a very normal couple (they are not wealthy, they spend their whole life in the same neighborhood) and yet they are also remarkable – they grow together throughout their lives and are true partners for one another. That is the kind of love that I aspire to nurture in my own relationship and was the kind of story I felt most compelled to write about.
Kate says, “Hope is the most painful thing.” And yet one thing that stands out most to me about this book is its hopeful nature, its positivity. Can you speak to this paradox?
I am a natural optimist, but I have met lots of pessimists throughout my life who perhaps hold themselves back from being hopeful and thinking the best might happen in case they end up disappointed. I think it’s a particularly British trait to be prone to cynicism. If you really care about something, for example by getting involved in a local campaign or fighting for something you believe in, there is a chance that you might end up not getting what you want. If you let yourself think positively, sometimes you are proven wrong. But I still believe that being hopeful is an important thing and I tried to capture this in my book – that some things are worth fighting for, even if you aren’t sure if your efforts will be rewarded. I personally would rather live my life in hope, and the journey towards hopefulness is an important part of my book.
And, speaking of hope, what do you hope readers will take away from this novel?
I hope that readers enjoy the book and it leaves them feeling uplifted. But I would also love if it made people look a little differently at the places in our communities that are often easy to overlook: the libraries, the swimming pools, the independent bookshops. We can sometimes take these places for granted, but I truly believe that we would lose so much if these places were to disappear from our streets. Oh, and if people felt inclined to go for a dip in their own local pool that would be wonderful too!
Libby – thank you SO much for taking time to answer these questions. I adore your book and its characters and your writing. It was difficult limiting myself to quoting only a few lines, as there are so many I love.
Thank you so much! It was a pleasure to answer these questions and thank you for your support of me and my book!
Now that you’ve read her interview – and, I hope, WILL read her beautiful book, if you want to follow Libby on social media, here are two ways to do it: Twitter: @LibbyPageWrites and Instagram: @TheSwimmingSisters
Chilling with Chiêu Anh Urban, Illustrator
I’m so excited to shine a spotlight on Chiêu Anh Urban, a wonderful artist and an even better friend. I’m lucky to live not far from Chiêu, and to see her (often with one or more 
of her beautiful daughters) every few weeks. So, I happen to know that, in addition to being a talented illustrator, Chiêu can tap dance, fence, and make the best salted caramel cupcakes I’ve ever eaten. She also throws amazingly creative parties for her youngest daughter. Check out some of her craft ideas at her website: http://chieuurban.blogspot.com/ Chiêu’s books include: COLOR WONDER HOORAY FOR SPRING; COLOR WONDER WINTER IS HERE; QUIET AS A MOUSE: AND OTHER ANIMAL IDIOMS, AWAY WE GO, and RAINDROPS: A SHOWER OF COLORS!
Here are a few of Chiêu’s stellar reviews:
Quiet as a Mouse: And Other Animal Idioms
“It’s a visually dramatic and playful exploration of animals and language – especially the final scene featuring a happy clam with mirrored sunglasses.” Publishers Weekly, November 2017
Color Wonder Hooray for Spring!
“2017 Board Books Worth Noting: I’ve never seen the concept of mixing colors done as inventively as you’ll find here… A smart board book if ever I saw one.” SLJ – Elizabeth Bird, July 2017
Color Wonder Hooray for Spring!
“Local author Chieu Anh Urban gives a big shout-out to spring in this intriguingly designed board book… Lots of fun for active little minds and fingers.” Washington Parent, May 2017
Away We Go! A Shapes and Seek Book
“The innovative die-cut images present shapes hidden inside brightly illustrated planes, submarines and hot-air balloons. Children will adore tracing and identifying the cutout shapes. Author-illustrator Urban’s background as a graphic illustrator is put to excellent use in this boldly crafted and illustrated book.” Literary Kids Book Review, April 2013
Chiêu, could you tell us why, and when, you first became interested in creating novelty books for young children?
When my girls were in preschool, I decided to make an interactive story book to teach them about colors and color mixing. I enjoyed the process so much and was inspired to learn more about the children’s book industry. I wanted to create interactive books that were fun and educational for young children. Raindrops: A Shower of Colors was published over five years later, and was the launch of my children’s novelty book career.
What is your background in art?
Growing up, I loved arts and crafts and enjoyed working with paper. One of my favorite childhood hobbies was making paper dolls and 3-D houses. I later studied at the VCU School of Arts and acquired a BFA in Communications Art and Design. I started a career as a graphic designer and now enjoy creating interactive novelty books for the youngest readers.
What is your favorite part of creating your books?
I love challenging myself and designing novelty formats that are unique and inventive. It’s so satisfying when the novelty elements work nicely, and complement the art and text to create a playful interactive story experience.
What is the most challenging aspect of novelty books?
Often times, the novelty format I design for a project can be cost-prohibitive to produce, or possibly too complicated to manufacture.
What advice do you have for other illustrators who might want to try their hand at novelty books?
Put together a book dummy of the project. The format and design may look great in sketches, but it’s important to test the novelty elements and make sure they function smoothly.
Would you like to tell us about your next project(s)?
I’m thrilled for the second book in my Color Wonder series to be released this October. 
Color Wonder Winter is Here! celebrates the cool colors of winter in a hands-on novelty board book with color transforming turn-wheels. Turn the wheels to mix and match the colors, and see how blue and red make purple, red and yellow make orange, and blue and yellow make green.
I also have an exciting novelty project in the works. It will be published in fall 2019.
Can’t wait! My great-nephews love your books! They make the best gifts (though I always keep one for myself, because I love them, too). Thanks so much, Chiêu, for taking time out of your hectic schedule, and for being my first-ever illustrator interview!
Unearthing a “Treasure” of a Debut Novel: The Battle of Junk Mountain by Lauren Abbey Greenberg
Imagine my surprise when I read that fellow Marylander – and one-time critique group 
member – Lauren Abbey Greenberg not only sold her middle grade novel… but to the same publisher who bought my middle grade book as well! A small world indeed! (Hooray for Running Press Kids!!)
I was lucky enough to attend Lauren’s recent book launch at a popular local bookstore in Washington, D.C. called Politics and Prose. Since then, she’s been so busy with school visits and speaking engagements that it was a challenge tracking her down for this interview!
Here is a sampling of the rave reviews Lauren’s debut novel, The Battle of Junk Mountain, has received:
“This absorbing middle-grade read gently but unflinchingly considers the common ground of growing up and growing old.”―Kirkus Reviews
“Realistic descriptions detail what it’s like to live with a hoarder and the reluctance to let go of sentimental treasures. This beautiful story reminds readers that there’s much more to life than material objects.―Booklist
“Themes on intergenerational relationships, grief, and evolving friendships elevate this above the standard summer vacation story.”―School Library Journal
“This coming of age story is a great book for middle grade[rs] . . . who enjoy realistic fiction.”―School Library Connection
“Shayne’s sharp wit combined with her can-do compassion grabs us from the get-go. Her summer of trials and unexpected friendships shines a brilliant light on the power of holding on . . . and letting go”―Jennifer Richard Jacobson, author of Small as an Elephant
“Anyone lucky enough to have a summer friend will instantly relate to Shayne as she navigates honoring old traditions and fostering new paths.”―Beth Vrabel, author of Caleb and Kit and the Pack of Dorks series
Lauren, let’s start with some questions about the book itself first, then segue to general writing questions…
Questions about The Battle of Junk Mountain
- It’s no secret that your cherished childhood summers inspired this story. How much of it is based on real events and real people?
Funny enough, it’s actually based on summers from my adult life! The very first time I visited the state of Maine, I went with my then-boyfriend (now my husband of almost 22 years) and we have returned almost every summer since. It has become a true family affair with grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins all making the ten-hour trek, and I feel blessed that my children have grown up with that tradition. The people in the story were all created in my head but much of the setting is modeled after real places, such as the Cod Café, Quayle’s Market, and the Cedar Island Flea Market. I will say that the scene in the Cod Café’s kitchen, where Shayne dumps salad dressing all over herself, was flat-out lifted from my life when I bussed tables as a young teen. Yep, it was quite a mess.
Thank you for your candor.
- One of the most unique and compelling features of your book is Bea’s hoarding. How did you come up with this? Was it a key element in the story all along? And did you know from the beginning that it was tied in to the loss of her husband?
Grandma Bea began simply as a yard sale enthusiast, who would delight in finding hidden treasures amongst the junk. But with each revision, I found that her hobby was morphing into a hoarding problem. Hoarding, of course, is often a symptom of a deeper mental health problem, like depression, anxiety, or OCD, and can be triggered by traumatic events such as a death in the family. Bea was assigning significant value to insignificant items, so I needed to dig deep to figure out the psychology behind her behavior. I also discovered an interesting connection between Bea’s hoarding and Shayne’s friendship troubles, as both characters let the power of memory control them, which kept them stuck in the past.
Definitely a very interesting parallel!
- One of my favorite characters is Linc, the boy obsessed with Civil War history. Have you known anyone like him? Have you attended any Civil War reenactments?
Linc is one of my favorite characters, too! I have not known anyone like him, but I felt that if he was the son of a reenactor and he wanted to follow in his father’s footsteps, then he really had to own it; no apologies. I did work on a couple film productions about the Civil War and the American Revolution, and I remember attending an American Revolution reenactment once as part of a location scout, although Linc would say that doesn’t count. For research, I also paid a visit to a few antique stores that specialized in Civil War paraphernalia.
Hmm. Sounds like material for a sequel…
- What was the biggest surprise for you as a writer as you revised the book? Were there any major changes you hadn’t expected when you first started it?
I didn’t set out to write a book about hoarding, that’s for sure! My early drafts were heavy on setting and not much else. I remember a critique partner telling me, “your writing is lovely but there’s nothing going on.” I had to learn how to raise the stakes and take my characters to uncomfortable places. I would often ask myself, “What is this book really about?” It’s a simple question, isn’t it? But for me, those underlying truths weren’t clear until much later in the revision process.
I suspect that’s not uncommon. Sometimes the simplest truths are the hardest to grasp (clears throat and covers mirror).
- Can you give us any hints of your next project?
My next project is another realistic contemporary middle grade and is inspired by the mid-Atlantic derecho of 2012.
Sounds exciting; can’t wait for it to come out!
Questions about Writing
- When did you first start writing this novel?
The Battle of Junk Mountain was born out of a class I took with the Institute of Children’s Literature back in 2011. I had an instructor who mentored me through the first draft (working title: The Treasures of Thomas Cove), and then I was on my own to revise, revise, revise. I had so much to learn and it took me five years before I felt the manuscript was ready for sub. Once I found my agent, Amy Jameson of A+B works, everything moved a little bit quicker. She pitched the novel the summer of 2016 and a few months later I had a book deal.
In other words, you’re one of those overnight successes…
- As a debut novelist, what was the most challenging aspect of your journey to publication?
The most challenging aspect of the journey was the glacial pace of it all. You write, you share pages, you have your first chapter critiqued at a conference, you revise some more, etc. The seasons change and the years tick by. And, of course, you’re wondering if putting in all this time and energy is worth it. At first, your friends and family are excited for you because, how cool, you’re writing a novel. Yay! Sure, they’ll ask you how it’s going from time to time, but then after a while they stop asking, because you have no answers for them. I’ll be honest, I really didn’t want all my hard work to end up in a drawer. People say you shouldn’t write just to be published, but sorry not sorry, I had an endgame I wanted, and I’m beyond thrilled that I reached that goal.
I understand COMPLETELY.
- What has been the most rewarding part so far?
Gosh, so many things! My first reward was my finished manuscript. When I got to that point where I felt I couldn’t make it any better, I took a moment to soak in that achievement. I had created a story with a definite beginning, middle, and end, and it didn’t stink. After signing on with a publisher, though, I have to say the rewards have been plentiful. Everything from working with my supportive editorial team, to having input on cover design, to receiving that first author blurb and trade review. And last but not least, seeing young readers holding your finished book in their hands. It’s an incredible feeling.
Insert sigh of longing here.
- What advice do you have for upcoming debut novelists?
The required flip from introverted writer to extroverted promoter is pretty remarkable and all-consuming. Promote! Present! Post! It’s blood pressure-raising at times, but exciting, too. Be proud of your work, be kind to yourself, and enjoy the ride.
Sounds like excellent advice!
- What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
Try to stay Zen and celebrate the small achievements along the way: a new plot idea, the completion of a first draft, a rejection letter with a handwritten note from an editor or agent. It’s not unusual to be circling the wagons for a long time, but with perseverance and patience, you will get there.
Lauren, thanks so much for sharing your story, and your journey, with us.
Courage and Kindness in CALEB AND KIT
I admit it. I saw Erwin Madrid’s exquisite cover for CALEB AND KIT, and couldn’t stop looking at it. Then I opened the book – and couldn’t stop reading it.
Beth Vrabel has done a remarkable thing: created a story about a 12-year-old boy living with cystic fibrosis, without letting his disease take over the story. She depicts what it’s like to live with it (both for Caleb and for his family), with such grace, finesse and restraint that we see past his challenges and see him for the amazing child he is. One of my favorite things about the book is Caleb’s love of heroes – especially his favorite, Captain America.
This exchange comes near the end of the book:
Shelly (a girl his age): Why do you like Captain America so much?
Caleb: Because he was born sick and weak, but became strong.
Shelly: No, he was born strong. His body was weak.
To me, this powerful distinction epitomizes Beth’s book. Both it, and Caleb, will stay with me for a long time.
Apparently, I’m not the only one. CALEB AND KIT has been selected as:
Bank Street Best Children’s Books of the Year (2018)
A VOYA Top Shelf Fiction for Middle School Readers 2017 Selection
Finalist for the 2017 Cybil Awards, (Middle Grade Fiction)
Diverse Books Club pick (February 2018)
And here are a few of the many soaring reviews:
“…Caleb is an exquisitely imperfect protagonist… reminiscent of Katherine Paterson’s classic Bridge to Terabithia… Hand to readers looking for a novel about both the magic and the pain of friendship. ― School Library Journal
“A realistic story with strong, recognizable characters that doesn’t reduce cystic fibrosis to a tragedy.” ― Kirkus Reviews
“Filled with smart, witty, and magical writing, Kit and Caleb, and those around them, come to vibrant life in this heartbreaking story about the ties that bring people together, and the difficulties of facing the truth.”― Booklist
“A compelling story of two struggling kids making their own safe haven.” ―Bulletin of the Center for Children’s Books
“A can’t-put-it-down tale… From the beautiful cover to the last sentence, this book is a favorite to savor and share.”―Bibi Belford, author of Canned and Crushed
“Having a disability myself, my heart broke for Caleb who wants nothing more than to feel like a normal twelve-year-old kid – at any cost.”―Kerry O’Malley Cerra, author of Just a Drop of Water
“…Caleb’s heroism is the real deal. He’s determined, courageous, and witty despite his unusual physical challenges… Readers young and old will find this a unique novel well-deserving of a permanent place on the family bookshelf.” ―Melissa Hart, author of Avenging the Owl
I hope you read this interview with Beth, then treat yourself to CALEB AND KIT, a book as beautiful on the inside as it is on the outside. After that, be sure to check out Beth’s latest book, SUPER DORKS, which just happens to come out TODAY (also known as May 8th, 2018)!
What – or who – was the inspiration behind this story?
I wanted to write a story about friendship, particularly when they have to end.
Ending friendships is painful and confusing, and something we struggle with throughout our lives and relationships. I still carry guilt for how I pushed a friend out of my life when I was twelve. I’ve discovered writing is a way to sort out my emotions—plus it’s the closest thing to a redo there is.
CALEB AND KIT also is a story about information and our access to it. Caleb lives with cystic fibrosis, and this chronic, fatal illness affects every aspect of his life. Caleb understands that, he knows what it means to have CF, why he needs to be cautious with his health, and how important it is to keep up with his treatments. The truth is painful and harsh, but knowing it makes him strong. He’s educated and informed.
Then there’s Kit. She’s surviving on fairy tales given to her by her grandmother as explanations for her mom’s neglect. Only now Grandma has passed away, and the stories aren’t enough to keep her safe.
Could you tell us about your research? How long did it take? How did you find people to share their stories with you?
The research aspect of CALEB AND KIT was without a doubt the longest, hardest aspect of writing this book. I did months of research, of story crafting and character building. By the time I actually sat down to write, Caleb was practically screaming to tell his story.
As the mom of a child who lives with a little-understood disability (my daughter has albinism/visual impairment), I’m extremely cognizant of how misrepresentation can be even more damaging than a lack of representation. I had to get this right, particularly with regards to cystic fibrosis.
I read every article I could find, scoured the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation’s website, watched countless YouTube testimonials from young people who live with CF. But to really understand CF, I had to connect with people who live with it every moment of every day. I put out a call on social media, asking if anyone in the CF community would be willing to answer questions.
That’s amazing!
William Marler, an award-winning filmmaker and artist, wrote back right away. He answered every question I had and also shared a movie he had created called Pep Mask. It so beautifully captures the nightly ritual of breathing treatments while weaving in a deeper understanding of just how important this seemingly routine act is not only to him but to his parents. He and I quickly became friends, and I’m forever grateful to CALEB AND KIT for that friendship.
I also heard from Charlee Munn, a British mom, and her son, Jack, who has CF. They provided incredible insight and also are now my friends.
Maybe most surprisingly, I heard from a friend in my hometown. Here was someone with whom I spent countless hours at the playground as our children played, and I had no idea her son also lived with CF.
I find this is often the case – when we reach out to people, we discover all sorts of unexpected, and powerful connections.
The insight they provided was immeasurable. Those conversations also are behind little things, such as how even a vase of flowers could be a problem or how CF patients would be separated in a waiting room, that added authenticity to Caleb’s story.
More importantly, it helped me move beyond the scary statistics surrounding CF and instead see the people who manage it with full and happy lives.
I think it’s really helpful for readers unfamiliar with CF to learn these things, to raise awareness.
“I wanted to be like Kit, to see stories everywhere… to make up a new world, one where I wasn’t sick and she was magic.”
Where did Kit – who Caleb describes as “shiny and brave, like a balloon just before bursting” – come from?
Oh, sweet Kit.
She’s created a world of her own, where she can become friends with birds. Where fairies watch over her as their princess. Where righting a wrong is as simple as offering a ring of dandelions.
I think there’s a little bit of Kit in all of us. When the truth is unbearable, part of us yearns for it all to be out of our hands, the work of magic to which we might someday escape.
Beautifully put – and poignant.
How much of Caleb is based on real children you met/spoke with, and how much is from your own imagination?
I spend a lot of time around children, but I think Caleb is a total work of imagination. That being said, of course he’s also got a lot of me in him, too. I remember thinking I had everything figured out as a kid, only to later realize now how myopic my perspective had been.
I suspect many of us can relate to that!
What was the most challenging aspect of this book?
The hardest part was ensuring that I wasn’t writing a book about chronic illness, but instead a book about a kid who happens to live with chronic illness. Here’s something I tell my children a lot: Everyone has a story, just like everybody faces challenges; but our stories are so much more than our challenges.
Beth, I love this so much!
What was the most rewarding?
My understanding of what it means to a have full life has forever changed. In one of our first email exchanges, I asked Will what he wishes more people understood about CF. He wrote: “I want people to be aware that CF is not the end of a long life, it’s only the start of one. …CF has taught me that if things are difficult to achieve, they are only more worth achieving.”
Such an important message, both for people struggling with CF, and people who meet/know/love them.
Were there any surprises along the way?
Yes! The ending was a surprise. I wasn’t sure how it was going to end until I wrote the last chapter, which never happens for me! Usually I know the ending before I’ve figured out the beginning.
I did have a mental picture—a boy standing on a sun-drenched rock—but I didn’t know what he would be saying or who would be with him until I got there, too.
That’s really interesting… and conveniently leads to my next question!
We spoke about 1st versus 3rd person for this book – could you please share the reasons you wrote in each, and why you ultimately chose first person?
Sure! I wrote the first chapter of CALEB AND KIT before I truly launched into researching cystic fibrosis—this was what my agent used to pitch the project. It was in first person, seen through Caleb’s eyes. I then put the book aside while I researched.
What I learned about this disease broke my heart—the statistics about shortened life expectancy, the overwhelming cost of medications, the pain these kids shoulder.
About this time, I started to think about putting the story in third person. I didn’t think of it as being connected to the research—I told myself it was me looking for a different way of telling the story.
I floated the idea of switching to third person to my friend Cecy Robson. Also a writer, Cecy saw through me, saw that what I really wanted was a barrier to Caleb, and told me to knock it off. If it hurts, if it’s hard, it’s important, she said. And, of course, she was right.
All writers need a friend like Cecy!
I leaned into the research, but I also was mindful to craft other aspects of Caleb’s life—his love for superheroes, his jealousy over his perfect brother, his yearning for independence, his physical awkwardness and his incredibly compassionate heart.
Soon I stopped seeing CF and instead just saw Caleb, a boy who happens to have CF. And Caleb wanted to tell his story himself.
Yes, this is exactly what I love most about your wonderful book!
What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
Our pastor has this saying: “Be the kind of person who sees the oak tree in an acorn.” Story acorns are all around us. But for them to truly sprout, they need to stretch deep as well as grow upright. They need roots. As writers, our experiences provide all the fertile ground for our stories—that’s what’s going to give them strength and nourishment. Be willing to root your stories in your own truth.
Excellent advice!
Could you please tell us about your next book?
I have two books releasing this year!
SUPER DORKS, the third in the PACK OF DORKS series, hits shelves May 8. The series is about a group of misfits and nerds who recognize the hierarchy of middle school and opt to band together in a pack of their own, even if it is a pack of dorks. SUPER DORKS features an accidental goat napping, a devastating injury, an epic martial arts takedown, a middle school election, a human turtle and even a geriatric wedding.
In October, look for THE RECKLESS CLUB. This is about a Nobody, an Athlete, a Flirt, a Drama Queen and a Rebel who have to spend the last summer day before their freshman year volunteering in a nursing home in lieu of detention. All the action takes place in the course of this one day as the five kids move beyond their labels to reveal what they’ve done, why they did it, and what they’re going to do now.
Can’t wait to read them! I’m going to add them to my TBR list right now! Beth, thank you so much for taking time to answer these questions. Both you, and your book, are truly beautiful.
Interview with Laura Shovan: Take Two, for Takedown
I am delighted to have a second interview with my dear friend, award-winning poet (and, I suspect, soon-to-be award-winning novelist) Laura Shovan. Laura’s debut middle grade novel-in-verse, The Last Fifth Grade of Emerson Elementary, was an NCTE 2017 Notable Verse Novel, a Bank Street College of Education Best Children’s Book of the year, and won a Cybils Award for poetry, as well a Nerdy Book Club award. And guess what? The paperback version comes out TOMORROW! (Otherwise known as April 10th, 2018, if you’re reading this on a different date.)
Laura’s next book, Takedown, is a novel told in alternating points of view and comes out on June 19th. It’s the perfect middle grade read and will appeal to boys and girls; athletes and non-athletes; and anyone who loves relatable characters. Mikayla (aka Mickey) and Lev are complex and sympathetic first-person narrators, and you can’t help but care about, and cheer for, them throughout the book.
Laura, thank you again for doing this – my first two-timer!
I’m honored!
I’m hoping you’ll be my first three-timer, too, when your next one comes out.
I hope so too. Working on two new books as we speak.
Let’s start with some questions about your newest novel:
What was your inspiration for Takedown?
“No one warned me being eleven was going to get this complicated.” (Lev)
Our son was a wrestler for many years, from age seven through middle school. When he joined a competitive travel team, our family schedule began to revolve around wrestling season. Takedown helped me think about the ways that intense participation in a sport can impact kids’ relationships with parents and with their friends who aren’t on the team.
This is definitely relatable – and, I have a hunch, not only for sports. How about theatre kids and musicians? Sometimes their schedules are pretty intense too (I speak from experience).
Did you plan to use alternating points of view from the start?
“All my good feelings about this season, my plans for making it to States, they disappeared when Mickey Delgado walked into our wrestling room.” (Lev)
“There’s no crying on the mat.” (Mickey)
I did not. My son was still wrestling when I began writing small poems and observations during tournaments and practices. Takedown was always going to be about a boy and his nemesis, a tough kid from a rival team. But I put the idea aside for several years. When I started up again, I was working on a scene about a dual meet (where two teams wrestle against each other for points), and Mickey’s character appeared. Her voice was clear and insistent from the start. I knew right away that she would have equal billing to Lev. And I’m happy to say that the sport has undergone a change since my son’s days on the mat. Girls’ wrestling is growing. In many youth leagues, girls and boys compete against each other.
That’s really interesting. I guess Mickey spoke up for herself from the very beginning! Was it equally easy to write for Lev as for Mikayla?
“When kids of different races wrestle each other, nobody cares. And wrestlers with disabilities. Everyone cheers for them. Why am I ‘that weird girl who wants to wrestle with the boys?’” (Mickey)
Lev and Mikayla (Mickey) have such different voices. I wouldn’t say one was easier than the other, but I had to make sure that they sounded different on the page. When I was working on a chapter in one voice — let’s say Lev’s — I would go back and read his previous two chapters out loud before writing his next scene.
That sounds like a very wise approach. What was the most challenging thing about writing this book?
“…this sport is the glue that keeps our family together.” (Mickey)
The most challenging and rewarding part was relearning the sport. I’d been away from wrestling for five years before starting Takedown. My research process involved reading books and articles, interviewing wrestlers and their parents, attending meets and tournaments, and watching documentaries. I had a lot of support from the Maryland State Wrestling Association. Two highlights were: seeing Olympic gold medalists Kyle Snyder and Helen Maroulis (the first U.S. woman to win gold in the sport!) run a clinic with kids; and talking to Mary Holmes, an internationally ranked brown belt in jiu-jitsu, about what it’s like to be a woman competing in a traditionally male contact sport.
Wow – that’s amazing! How common are female wrestlers in middle school? Did you get to meet/interview any?
“If I win today, I’m going to take my trophy home, paint its fingernails pink, and give it pink knee socks just like mine.” It actually sounds like fun, a project for me and Kenna. We’ll take one of the trophies and give it a makeover.” (Mickey)
I met a few girls on Maryland State’s youth team, who were heading to a national competition, and their coach. Jay LaValley, former head of MSWA, was and is an amazing advocate for getting girls into the sport. I had a chance to attend the very first Maryland State girls championship tournament, which became a scene in the book. There’s great information about the sport at the Wrestle Like a Girl foundation’s website. (http://www.wrestlelikeagirl.org/) I’ll be donating copies of Takedown to their summer programs for girls.
One last quote, which I think sums up this fantastic book in a nutshell:
Lev: “We’re here to wrestle, not change the fabric of the universe.”
Mickey: “Maybe it needs a new fabric.”
And now for some general writing questions:
Now that you have TWO(!) wonderful books under your belt, I’d love for you to compare the journeys. First, could you please discuss writing a novel versus a novel-in-verse?
What a great question! Poetry is my go-to form of writing. I love the freedom of poetry — being able to play with language, ideas, and what the words look like on the page. For The Last Fifth Grade, that sense of play was wonderful. If I had an idea for a poem or a scene, I could write a short poem, or two, or three, to see what worked best. Working on a traditional novel was a challenge for me. Every chapter, every scene, meant I was committing to several pages of writing! That made me nervous at first, but I enjoyed the expansiveness of prose.
What a great answer. 🙂 What is the most important thing you’ve learned so far about the journey to publication?
I’ve learned the value of community. The best thing I did as a pre-published and debut author was to get involved in a few kidlit groups: the Poetry Friday blogging community, the PitchWars mentorship program, and the Sweet 16s debut author group. Support from all three groups saw me through some rough patches, and they’ve been my best cheerleaders when I’ve had news to celebrate. Volunteering my time, especially as a PitchWars mentor, has given me an opportunity to coach others on their path to publication.
(When Laura says, “coach others,” she’s including me, for sure.) What is the most surprising thing that’s happened to you on this journey? And the most gratifying?
Surprising (in the best way): When a fifth grade class dressed up as Ms. Hill’s students from The Last Fifth Grade and sent me pictures. Their costumes were awesome! Most gratifying was receiving the Arnold Adoff Poetry Award for New Voices honor award. Arnold Adoff is one of my favorite children’s poets and has long been advocating for diversity and social justice in kidlit. I teach his poems during school residencies and consider him a poet-hero. I burst into tears when I got the news.
Amazing!! What is the most challenging aspect for you of starting a new project? Speaking of new projects, anything you can tell us about your next one?
I’m working on a collaborative novel middle grade right now. That’s a new adventure with a new set of challenges. The process of brainstorming together and supporting each other is exciting. My co-writer, Saadia Faruqi, and I have to negotiate between plotting and pantsing (Being a plotter or a pantser — writing by the seat of your pants: https://thewritepractice.com/plotters-pantsers/). She’s teaching me how to outline and I am (I hope) coaching her to trust the revision process. It’s set at an after-school cooking club. As part of my research, I’m learning how to cook Southeast Asian dishes like chicken masala. Best research ever!
If you ever need help with that kind of research, please keep me in mind. Laura, thanks again so much for taking time from your jam-packed schedule. I hope, and predict, Takedown will fly off the shelves, and be loved by many readers.
You & I & EVERYONE Else… should read this book!
Have you ever read a novel that just begs to be made into a movie? This was definitely the case with me as I laughed (and teared up) through Anna Schachner’s fantastic debut novel, YOU AND I AND SOMEONE ELSE.
What was your inspiration for this novel?
I wanted it to be my love song to the South, so you can say that the South of my childhood— filling stations along two-lane highways, Coke in icy green bottles, rows of corn so straight it made you dizzy, small towns with cafes and hardware stores, lots of land and trees between those towns, connectivity of the people kind, a certain prim kind of disapproval of strangers and outsiders (the South of my youth was not perfect, of course— was my inspiration, too
How did the title come about? Is the “someone else” open to interpretation?
The novel had a couple of other not-so-good titles as I was writing it, but then right before I finished the first draft, You and I and Someone Else came to me. Triangular relationships are at the heart of the novel’s tension, and there are lots of them: Frannie, Jude, and Evan; and Duncan, Madelane, and Melissa, for example. Maybe the most important one is Frannie, Jude, and the baby—the baby remains a concept for 99.9% of the book, so the question the reader is left with when the book ends is how that triangle will play out. I also like the idea that the “someone else” is the future “I” of the title, that a person will change because of that relationship between the “you” and the “I” and perhaps become a person who is different, for better or worse.
Why did you write the prologue with Rita already pregnant with Frannie’s child, rather than go sequentially? (This probably won’t be the first question, by the way.)
I wanted the reader to have a quick introduction to the main narrative thread (there are a few, I know) before the first chapter, which is all backstory. And most of all, I wanted to send a message to the reader that, more so than plot, the intricacies of the relationships, particularly with Jude, Frannie, Evan, and Rita, were the things to focus on.
What was your biggest challenge writing this book?
I think it would have to be converting it from a story collection into a novel. I basically had the narrative, forward action of the novel contained in the stories, but I had to come up with backstory and context and nuance. In doing so, I started to employ the First Person omniscient kind of point of view where the narrator, Frannie, tells stories she wouldn’t have been part of her herself. This technique operates like a Greek chorus, more or less, providing the reader necessary information but also allowing Frannie to spin it a little bit. At first, I struggled with these sections, but once I figured out all the narrative threads, they became much easier. And to be honest: they are my favorite sections of the book because they really explore the characters and are better able to use lyrical language.
Could you tell about your journey to publication?
Well, it was long and meandering and not particularly glorious—at least until the end! As I mentioned above, the novel started as a story cycle, which did not find a home. When I turned it into a novel, I queried agents, and had eight offer to represent me. I chose the most established of them, and we signed a contract. She “shopped the book” to about ten houses in New York, but then lost interest. We parted ways. After that, the book sat, alone and sad, for a long time while I wrote two other books—because, since it had been partially shopped, no agent would be interested in it. Then about three years ago, I decided to send it to some independent presses. The first two declined, but said very nice things about it. And then Mercer accepted it in November 2015. It was published in April 2017.
Did you have the basic plot, and characters, worked out before you began?
No. With the story collection, I had all but two characters—Hugh and Melissa—and most of the plot. But once I came up with the backstory of Frannie’s father, including Hugh and Melissa, the plot really worked itself out. Those two characters changed a lot! But even with the characters, Frannie included, that I did have already formed, they were really only formed to the extent that I knew what each of them wanted. That’s what I always start with: a character that really, really wants something and doesn’t quite know how to get it. For Frannie, it was that she wanted a family. She wanted to be a mother.
Was this story percolating for a long time, or did it come to you all at once?
It percolated. It percolated. It percolated. For me, the only way to make any progress on a book is to write and see where that takes me. So, even though the book bumped around in my imagination during that time when I was trying to figure out how to convert it into a novel from a story collection, I could only figure out how to do it once I started writing. I know authors who plan their books, down to what happens in each scene, but I have no idea how that works. Even if it’s a slower process, I have to figure it out as I go. And it’s very visceral—I have to type the words for the words to connect. I do a lot of spin classes and walking, and I always “write” when I’m on the bike or huffing it home that last mile. And sometimes I will actually compose a full sentence in my head that makes it onto the page. That’s it, though. If I try to put the sentences together without typing or seeing the words, it doesn’t work. So I use my cardio time to think about plot or motivation or what a character would wear to church, I gotta have the words forming, though, to get at the characters, to really expose them. For me, the magic of the process is the discovery, when the characters are calling the shots. That’s when you know that the characters are really working—because you trust them.
I fell in love with these characters! Will there be a sequel? (Please say yes.)
That is very nice of you to ask. The thing is, I love these characters, too. I still do. When I finished the book ten years ago, I had no interest in writing a sequel. It never occurred to me. But so many people have asked me about a sequel that I’ve started thinking about it. So maybe. I know this much: the character who interests me the most is Melissa. I don’t have all of her story worked out, and I think it would be fun to do that. So maybe not so much a sequel as a tangential, if that’s a word that can apply to books.
The parallels of lost children, plus Frannie’s inability to have them, are poignant and powerful. What made you come up with that part of the story?
A lot of people close to me have lost children. I have always thought that was the worst thing life could do to you. It changes someone. It breaks up marriages. It haunts siblings. It causes resentment toward those who have not lost children. Of course, it is natural to think that mothers suffer the worst, and certainly, Frannie’s mother, Rita, and to some extent, Frannie herself, suffer and grieve for their lost children. But I wondered about fathers, their stories. We know women’s stories more than men’s (the husbands or partners). So, Jude was the convergence of those two things—the man who has lost a child and who, if he stays with Frannie, will not be able to be a father again in the traditional way. In many ways, the book is about parenting. Some of that parenting is bad. Some of it is competent. Some of it is almost too good, too selfless. And a lot of it is speculative, on Frannie’s part at least. That’s the thing about being a child—you know just how to parent better than your mother or father did when you grow up. Or you think you know.
Did any characters, or plot development, surprise you?
You know, it all did. Plot always surprises me. It’s the most challenging part of writing for me, so, for the most part, it comes slowly and with a lot of thinking and revision. Sometimes it comes more quickly. Either way, I am always pleasantly surprised. And once I start letting the characters take over the story, I am always surprised. Everything about Jude and Hugh surprised me. I’ve always been intrigued by this—that the two guys Frannie had to choose between were the ones that were barely named, much less developed, when I started the book. That might have something to do with the 47 dates I went on in three months—thank you, Match.com—when I was writing the novel. Some of those dates were novels themselves. Pick a literary genre, and I had a date that matched it.
As a debut author, what advice do you have for aspiring writers?
This is the easiest question to answer because I know I am right: have grit. Talent helps. but passion and perseverance—grit—is what will take you there. Write about what you feel passionately; and know from the very beginning that writing and publishing are two very different things. You can control the writing, but you can’t control the publishing. If you want to publish, though, you just keep at it and you never ever ever write something because you think it will publish. Write something because you are just arrogant or optimistic enough to think that because you feel it, readers will, too. Write because you think that your very best sentence—the one you are still striving to write—will change the world.
Could you tell us about your next project?
Well, last week, I just finished another novel. I think it counts as my next project because it is about to start its journey to publication. It’s about an 18-year-old girl, Parker, who learns to trade her anger for passion. It’s also about the mystery of the wild and family secrets and foster homes. And Birkenstocks—they take a hit in the book. Oh, and there’s a ghost. When I started the book, I thought it was going to be a modern rewrite of Jane Eyre, but—surprise, surprise!—it ended up being something else altogether.
Anna, thanks so much for taking the time to give such thoughtful, honest and in-depth responses. I know everyone who reads your book will love it as much as I did!
Better than ‘Good’ Karma
One of the most enjoyable books I read this past year is GOOD KARMA by debut novelist Christina Kelly. I fell in love with its perfect blend of humor and pathos and its memorable cast of eccentric-but-relatable characters. What immediately won me over, though – even before page one – was Christina’s “Dear Reader” intro…
Your unusual “Dear Reader” intro tells of your publishing journey. Was it your idea to include it?
It was my editor’s idea, but I really enjoyed writing it. It allowed me to let the reader get to know me a bit. Also, I hope it gives someone who has considered writing a novel the courage to start.
Your intro implies that Catherine was a surprising choice – to you – for your heroine. Had you originally expected it to be someone else’s story? Did your original vision change as you wrote the novel?
Yes, before I started writing, I thought it would be Ida Blue’s story. I was taken by the idea of a “pet psychic” who understands that she has no psychic power, but just wants to help people however she can. Once Catherine and Ralph arrived at my fictional community, I knew they would intersect with Ida Blue, but I didn’t know how. I had a vague plot worked out, but my characters didn’t cooperate and started acting on their own.
How early on did you come up with your perfect title?
I’m so glad you like the title “Good Karma” as much as I do. My working title for the first two years of writing was “The Gates.” My original idea was to have the entire novel set within a gated community. The metaphor, of course, was that my characters were trapped (in different ways) in their routines and relationships. As the character of Karma the dog became more active and brought several characters together (with the help of Sequoia), I thought good karma fit nicely.
Do you have a “Karma” in your life?
Do we ever. Gussie is our eight-year-old rescue Boston terrier. She’s obsessed with chasing tennis balls and is stubborn, but hilarious.
One of the main things you explore – with the perfect blend of humor and pathos – is what happens after the passion is gone after decades of marriage: Is it worth fighting for/reinventing… or is it too late? Did you know the answer (for Catherine) when you began, or did she let you know as her tale unfolded?
I did not know the ending before I began. In fact, I don’t think I even knew it until I wrote the final scene.
What was your biggest challenge in writing this novel?
Continuing to write when I questioned whether it would ever get published. Honestly, I think this is why having a writing group is so important. My friends really encouraged me when I might have given up.
What was your biggest surprise?
My biggest surprise has more to do with marketing than writing. I had always avoided any form of social media, so it was a challenge when my HarperCollins team recommended I join Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. It has been a slow learning curve, but I’ve quite enjoyed connecting with old friends and meeting new ones. Who knew?!
One of my favorite characters, Fred’s wife Lissa, is… dead. You wrote: “He tried to imagine a life, even a dog, with anyone else.” What made you decide to make Lissa so vivid and vibrant after killing her off?
I imagined her as such a spirited woman. When I wrote from Fred’s point of view, I knew he would hear her, so I thought the reader should too.
One of the most heartbreaking lines is when Fred’s dog immediately takes a liking to Catherine and licks her: “Catherine suddenly remembered what it was to be loved.” Could you speak to the importance of dogs and their unconditional affection and loyalty – both in your book and, perhaps, in your own life?
Ha! Our Boston terrier is perhaps the least affectionate dog on the planet. Perhaps I was writing about a love that I wanted.
How did you come up with the unique character of Amity, who creeps in other people’s homes?
I have plenty of friends (myself included) who love to go to real estate open houses and binge watch HGTV’s house hunting shows. I think most of us can relate to the feeling of wanting to live other people’s lives, if only for an hour or an episode.
What do you want most for your readers to take away?
That it’s never to late to find your voice or the love of your life. Also, of course, that good karma is always lurking out there, ready to surprise you.
Could you give us a sneak peek into your current project?
Yes, I’m delighted that I’m about five chapters into my next novel. It’s about a long-married couple who are on a road trip to see their family. Hard to imagine, but my new cast of characters feel livelier than the last. Put on your seatbelts because it’s going to be fun.
To find out more about Christina, check out:
https://www.facebook.com/ChristinaKellyAuthor
Author page: https://www.christinakellyauthor.com/
GOOD KARMA is now available from HarperCollins:
https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062659705/good-karma
… and Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Indiebound, or wherever books are sold.
Holding “Court” with Michelle Brafman
This month’s blog is with an award-winning local (at least, to folks in Maryland) author, Michelle Brafman, whose latest book is hot off the press. BERTRAND COURT is a spellbinding collection of seventeen intricately interwoven short stories. The stories span roughly eighty years, and a cast of characters linked both by family and location (hence the title). Michelle, who has been called “a Jewish Anne Lamott,” has been praised by critics for her empathy and honesty.
Her haunting first story– which is one of my favorites – is in the unusual format of second person. It is powerful, poignant and unforgettable. Every story is unique and memorable, but for me they all share several qualities: luminous writing; universal themes; and compassion for her characters, and for us all.
I hope you’ll take a few minutes to find out more about Michelle’s book, and about her fascinating journey to publication.
Why did it take 15 years to write BERTRAND COURT? Were you writing other things in-between? Mulling them over? Or other reasons?
I actually wrote what I thought was the finished book fifteen years ago, but numerous agents advised me to write and publish a novel first. Tall order! I set BERTRAND COURT aside and wrote and sold my novel WASHING THE DEAD. My publisher, Prospect Park Books, asked to see BERTRAND COURT, and here we are. I proceeded to spend a good six months tightening the connections between the characters, writing new pieces to bridge the stories together, and leveling out the quality of the writing.
Way back when, I was devastated that I couldn’t find a home for BERTRAND COURT, but now I’m grateful for the marination time and the chance to hone my writing skills. It’s a much better book.
What made you choose 1st person for certain stories and 3rd person for others?
I picked the point of view that I felt best served the story. For example, I was going for a confessional tone with “Sylvia’s Spoon,” so the first person point of view felt right. I chose third person when I was trying to insert a little more space between the reader and the story, meaning pull back the camera a bit for a wider shot. And in the opening story, I selected second person, because I wanted to bring the reader so tight into the story that he/she would believe that the narrator was a fetus.
Are any sections based on your own experience?
Not factually, but I certainly felt some of the emotions I ascribed to my characters. For example, when I was pregnant, I did not yearn to visit my old urban haunts, but I did have moments when I realized that the gap between my newly domesticated life and my roaring twenties was widening daily.
Is any character closest to you/most like you?
There’s a piece of me in every single character!
What was the most challenging thing about writing this book?
Some of these stories took years to mature because I simply did not have either the insight or the chops to tell them. Of course, I was antsy to publish them anyway. But now I realize that sometimes I have to back away from a story (or even a novel) and let it grow up all on its own.
Had you always planned to link the sections together?
Not at first, but then I found myself drawn to linked story collections, and soon I found myself exploring various characters’ takes on a specific story. Soon these characters started popping up in other pieces, and before I knew it, I’d created a universe of people with shared histories, secrets, and conflicts. I’m always humbled by how connected we all are to one another and how much these connections matter.
How did you decide on 17 stories? Were there any others you wrote but chose to leave out? If so, why?
I initially wrote 13 stories, but when I returned to the book years later, I realized that I had some holes to fill. I kept adding stories until I felt the book cohered.
There were two stories that I had to drop because the characters were too peripheral to Bertrand Court, and hard as I tried, I couldn’t shoehorn them into the book. One piece was published elsewhere, and the others served as the springboard for my new novel.
Was one story harder to write than the others? Do you have a personal favorite?
“Minocqua Bats” was really hard to write because the story turned out to be about something entirely different than my initial errand for it. I kept fighting the material, so I had to put it away for a while and then open up my mind and heart to what was happening on the page.
I do not have a favorite. I love them all equally!
If you could add one more story, which character would you write about and why?
That’s a really good question. I’d probably write more about Maggie, the former cheerleader who lets herself go and marries a Jew to spite her mother. Poor Maggie gets the most airtime when she’s at her absolute worst. I’d be curious to see her during a moment when she’s a bit more settled into herself, yet on the brink of returning to her old sanctimonious ways. Oh, boy. That would be fun.
You mention wanting to revisit “poor Maggie” – do you think you might write a sequel of sorts, seeing what happened to the characters 5 or 10 years later? I’d love to find out! 🙂
That’s an intriguing idea! I hadn’t considered it, but maybe I will now.
How did you come up with the concept for this book?
The concept evolved over time, as I grew more curious about these characters. Who were they when they were pushed to their emotional brink? When they were on more solid footing? How were they perceived by their family members, friends, or enemies? For example, the same character who in one story steals the family silver, emerges as the family matriarch in another, or the rock sold dental hygienist who serves as the glue for both her family and Bertrand Court, steals a leather jacket from Nordstrom when her husband’s business goes bankrupt. I can be quick to judge others and myself, and writing helps me to take a step back and embrace the complexities and inconsistencies that make us all so frustrating, loveable, disappointing, funny, and ultimately, human.
Lastly, would you like to talk a bit about your first novel, WASHING THE DEAD? You spoke about the BERTRAND COURT journey, which was fascinating, and it made me wonder if it was easier to get WTD published? Did you have to submit to a lot of publishers? Did you have an agent? Why do you think you were able to sell that one first (besides BC needing to marinate)?
I did go through a rather lengthy process, seven years total, to write and revise Washing the Dead and in turn find the right agent and publisher. I’m not sure that I wouldn’t have published Bertrand Court had I kept trying, but I think it all worked out the way it was supposed to. Of course, it’s easy to say this now!!
Thank you so much, Michelle, for, taking the time to answer these questions.
I hope you’ll all run to your local bookstores, or to one of the following sites on your computer:
https://www.amazon.com/Michelle-Brafman/e/B00MW84FIQ
http://www.politics-prose.com/search/site/michelle%20brafman
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/michelle+brafman?_requestid=244310
Naomi Milliner 